Some of them have migrated as far north as Jasper County in the southern tip of South Carolina, Chastain said. . Our approach to admissions may be holistic, but our goal is singular: find the most well-rounded, academically accomplished and interesting students out there. According to wildlife expert Ken Burton on the enature website, there are mountain lions in Western NC along the Smoky Mountains. These cats get their name from their short tail. Flickr/Ken McMillan. Stay on top of cat food recalls here >, Have a dog? Bobcats are South Carolinas only wild cat. A mountain lion is a wild cat ranging from two to three feet tall, with females weighing up to 120lbs and males up to 200lbs, making it the fourth largest cat in the world. But then his neighbors dogs started barking. Stay on top of dog food recalls here >, Have a question? For years state biologists have treated sightings with suspicion. Several years later, the story of a federal foresters escape from the clutches of a black panther in Oconee County made headlines. It was not a matter of fight or flight with him; rather, he had no interest in being gawked at in daylight hours by a motorist. However, they're becoming more and more of an issue in the Piedmont. Panthers are simply another term for mountain lions or cougars, which are actually known by many different names. While everyone knows the dangers of feeding a bear, most people overlook the possibility of one of them running across the road while you're driving. The eastern cougar, however, was declared extinct in 2011. There is another possibility that seems to be increasing in likelihood in recent years. SCDNR has yet to receive a report of drivers hitting a mountain lion, said Butfiloski. I said in the forum "black panthers in the hunting woods," that there are black panthers in SC, and I know its hard to believe. They are most active around dawn and dusk, though they will technically come out at any time. Don't underestimate the power and unpredictable nature of a feral hog! However, there has not been a verified sighting in over 100 years. Such conditions exist within Point Reyes National Seashore. I guess a Florida panther could possibly roam into South Carolina, but Im not sure they would make it that far without getting hit by a car, said Butfiloski. Trail cam picture of mountain lion in SC. Anyway, two years ago in August I was driving down on the highway south of Ashboro & think I seen [sic] a dead one on the side of the road by mile marker 51.Long tail, all black but I couldn't see the head. Suddenly, the children saw a movement and a mountain lion came walking down the trail . Two clicks on Google search brought up pictures exactly like what I had seen - an Eastern cougar cub. In a fight between mountain lion vs bobcat, the mountain lion would win. Bobcats are an elusive species. Pee Dee Wildlife Control Inc. 2019 All Rights Reserved. Bobcats, Lynx rufus, one of six cat species native to the United States, can be found in each of the lower 48 states, including all of South Carolina. 6. But then I found some female mountain lion sounds, and it was dead on. Bobcats are known for taking down predators larger than themselves, but the mountain lion is just too much larger and stronger. Mountain lions once lived in much of the eastern United States. More recent mountain lion reports stem from the Upstate. Cougars are known to have a long-range, especially males. (With Pictures), The latest veterinarians' answers to questions from our database, How to Help an Abused Dog Recover 8 Tips and Tricks, Lymphadenopathy in Cats: Signs, Causes & Care. Greenville, SC 29613. East Tennessee Mountain Lions- Part 2. Low near 65F. While we provide information resources and canine education, the content here is not a substitute for veterinary guidance. So you go for a ride with the big cat and let him loose somewhere in deer country which is anywhere in the state. The last three eastern cougars were killed in 1930 in Tennessee, New Brunswick in 1932, and Maine in 1938. Note: A number of other species all over the world have been declared extinct, only to be rediscovered, having survived in a very tiny population that was out of sight long enough to assume them extinct. You can tell the similarities by looking at them, specifically thanks to their black-tipped ears. What is difference between bobcat and mountain lion? With the closest mountain lion population being in South Florida, cougars would have to travel very far to end up in South Carolina. The big cats once roamed the entire Southeast but were decimated by hunting. Yet "domestic coyotes are responsible for 20 deaths every year." "The actual threat to people by . With spectacular hiking trails, scenic waterfalls and sweeping views, the magnificent Blue Ridge Mountains of South Carolina are an outdoor enthusiast's dream. The Goddard School opens Woodruff Road location in Greenville, City of Greenville to temporarily close a portion of Academy Street on March 6, Simpsonville City Council Notes: Road resurfacing projects delayed until 2024, Greer City Council Notes: Mayfield Road subdivision plans withdrawn, plus new fire station gets early approval, Greenville Chamber highlights community strengths at annual meeting, Greenville-Pickens Speedway listed for sale as an industrial park, Photos: Coca-Cola mural in West End removed, Former Fountain Inn flour mill redevelopment project breaks ground. Might have been Monster Quest. Eerie nighttime photos from trail cameras and tales of mountain lions attacking hikers flood social media and news channels. With that said, there are some sightings of mountain lions and cougars but none of them have been confirmed. Koehler wasnt able to record the sound before the mystery creature moved on, but he remains adamant theres a mountain lion roaming around his house. Their home ranges vary in size depending on the location. There has never been a record or credible account of a black cougar in Eastern North America, Chastain said. Cougars, also known as mountain lions, were once common here and they have left a legacy of place names throughout the state indeed, the entire Southeast. Jaguars and leopards, on the other hand, have a gene that occurs in six percent of the population that causes black cats. You have permission to edit this article. Those thoughts contented me for a few miles until some reflection revealed what should have been obvious when I first set eyes on the beast -- a Bobcat can't have a long, thick tail. A wild mountain lion hasnt been verified in South Carolina in about 100 years, said Perry, whos studied mountain lions for more than a decade. Last year, Ben Claes, owner of Jireh Property Services in Taylors, was cleaning a lawn down the street from Koehlers house after a snowstorm and noticed large tracks on the ground. However, cougars do have a renowned wanderlust and are known for ending up places they technically arent supposed to be. As to relocating cougars from the West to the East to control deer overpopulation, Chastain doesnt think thats a good idea. However, the 1946 taxonomy is now in question. Sightings are sometimes reported to the state, and in 2019 multiple people took to Facebook claiming to have seen one, but no confirmations have been made. While these cats are shy, they will live near humans to grant them access to livestock. This Florida population, once down to about 50 animals, is now thought to be back in excess of 100 animals as a positive result of recovery plans. Mountain lions have a long tail that is usually darker colored at the tip. They are active hunters and may cover as much as 20 miles in a night. At full size, males are an unmissable 6-to-8-feet long and can weigh 150 pounds, say state officials. "Many of these deaths have occurred in British Columbia, on Vancouver Island. However, its a moot point since there are no Eastern cougars still around to shoot., More:Kumar the orangutan escapes Greenville Zoo exhibit - again. He said there used to be a den behind the Bowles horse farm before the farm was there. Theres just no scientific documentation to back that up.. So rather than a unique species, the Eastern Cougar was a distinct variation within the cougar population that roamed throughout North America. I stopped the car thirty feet away, and we stared at each other for a few moments. Therefore, it is not unheard of for a young male to wander into the state for a time and then leave. Fish and Wildlife Service, actually investigated several hundred big cat reports throughout the Southeast in the late 1970s and 1980s but found no proof of their existence outside of Florida. The primary food source for a mountain lion would be deer and there is no doubt we have lots of them but so does Georgia and South Carolina. Contact: (855) 411-0505. Like the Carolina parakeet, the predator cat couldn't cope with spreading civilization encroaching upon its feeding fields. A responder adds, 'The DNR swears up and down there are no mountain lions left in SC. Your Safety in Mountain Lion Habitat. Many ridges, creeks, swamps and mountains were long . We need a top predator to keep the coyotes under control.. ), I am convinced, now more than ever, that we must be proactive with educator compensation immediately so that we can change the trajectory of the shortage in CCSD. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. We Inform. How does allopurinol treat leishmaniasis. What are potassium channel activators used for? Federal Fish and Wildlife experts studied the matter of the Eastern cougar and declared it to be extinct -- at least in this region it is gone, they say. Therefore, they are not exactly something we would count as big cats.. They are normally found in the Indian, Pacific, and Atlantic Oceans. "In South Carolina and in the wildlife community, there is no debate" about the presence of cougars in the east, Lucas said. But Im not sure well ever see an established breeding population., Simpsonville City Council Notes: Road resurfacing projects delayed until 2024, Greer City Council Notes: Mayfield Road subdivision plans withdrawn, plus new fire station gets early approval, Greenville Chamber highlights community strengths at annual meeting, Greenville-Pickens Speedway listed for sale as an industrial park, Photos: Coca-Cola mural in West End removed, Former Fountain Inn flour mill redevelopment project breaks ground, Thrive Upstate, DRUM Percussion Studio to host Drumming Up Awareness event, Eight NAI Furman brokers, two brokerage teams named 2022 NAI Global top producers. My father encountered one on U.S. Highway 172 north of Summerville 40 years ago. I came face to face with the famed Carolina panther, and I don't mean the blue and black NFL variety. By Edmund Duncan May 31, 2022. More recent mountain lion reports stem from the Upstate. UNSPECIFIED - MARCH 03: Cougar, Puma or Mountain Lion (Puma concolor), Felidae. I listened to bobcats, coyotes, and all kinds of other animals. In others, the encounters are more direct, like the report from a U.S. Forest Service employee who said a big cat had chased him into the Chattooga River. I did email the DNR when I got home 7 days later but never heard anything back.'. In olden days it was considered folly for a traveller to venture far without a firearm. However, without females in the area, males are unlikely to stay for long. The northeastern U.S. population is thought to have disappeared in the 1930s. Fish and Wildlife Service promulgated a new rule last week removing the Eastern puma from the Federal List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife. The only established large cat is the bobcat in South Carolina. It was at least 5 foot long plus the length of its thick long tail which was at least 3 feet. Driving on, I reflected that many of the Upstate servicemen called up for the Army in 1918 were placed in the 81 st Wildcat Division. Cats need enough food within their territory to survive, so their ranges will be based on where food is located in the areasome may have territory that stretches over 40 acres. Wed love to know! July 21, 2017. All Rights Reserved. "Since 1890 there have been 19 fatal Mountain Lion attacks in Canada and the United States," Mattson said. It was a female mountain lion.. I was driving very slow one morning in 2012 on a dirt road when I came upon one weighing about 125-150. . While some South Carolinians are reportedly spotting mountain lions, others are claiming to see something much more menacing: a black panther. Mountain lions range between 80-225 pounds and 6 to 9 feet long (nose to tail). The large cats are not staying and breeding in the state. This feline only gets to about . While there is some doubt the cougar still exists south of the Canadian Maritime provinces, significant sightings occur in Tennessee and North and South Carolina. (Photo by DeAgostini/Getty Images) The year was 1961. The range of a Mountain Lion may cover 25 to 785 square miles. The only recognized population of mountain lions in the South is in South Florida in the Everglades, said Travis Perry, an associate biology professor at Furman University. Search for cougars continues in Pennsylvania. Therefore, they are not usually considered a threat to people. In fact, there are more than 80 names for the puma, more names than any other animal, according to the book "Cougar: The American Lion," by Kevin Hansen.It is important to note, though, that pumas . When she's not working, she loves to cook with friends and check out new adventures. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal likely trekked more than 1,500 miles from South Dakota, a journey that was captured by trail camera (above). Yes, usually in the Great Smoky Mountains . Apparently, there may not ever have even been a subspecies of the critter in the East different from its big cat cousins in the West also called mountain lions the agency goes on to report. They arent much bigger than a domestic house cat in many cases. There are a number of answers to this question. Im not the only person hearing and seeing these cats, said Koehler. The majestic cat only lives in a small portion of the United States. Then about 8 years ago I was driving down Clements Ferry and one ran across the road in front of me just past the old Mikasa plant heading towards 526. The DNR maintains mountain lion sightings using a system to receive, record and review mountain lion reports. A Florida panther in South Carolina? A wild mountain lion hasnt been verified in South Carolina in about 100 years, said Perry, whos studied mountain lions for more than a decade. Scientists view these large cats as a distinct population (but still the same species) from the mountain lions of the western U.S. The report said it appeared to be a female lion with two kittens, or two . He believes people who reported seeing black panthers were seeing animals either at early dawn or late dusk, when colors are hard to disginguish. How to Keep Cats Out of Flower Beds (11 Easy Methods), Why Do Cats Move Their Kittens? Since there is no melanistic, or black, phase to the cougar, Florida or Western, that is actually not genetically possible, he said. Whether they're called cougars, mountain lions, pumas or catamounts, wildlife experts believe the cats exist as a stable, . Adult females are smaller, averaging 80-90 pounds. Mountain lions are sneaky animals, he said. Many believe mountain lions still exist in Pennsylvania. I do not believe that South Carolina has a free-ranging wild cougar population, said Butfiloski. Were here with the info you need to separate fact from fiction. Make noise, make yourself appear larger by waving your arms. bottomland forests Fortunately, a mountain lion hasnt escaped captivity for more than a decade in South Carolina,according to Butfiloski. I'm sort of proud to be part of an elite little group that has made eye contact with the illusive Carolina panther. Andrew Moore of the Greenville Journal pens a story about alleged mountain lion sightings in South Carolina. Mountain lions typically keep their distance from humans, he said. "There are no known cougars in North Carolina," Jodie Owens of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission told the Observer. Brandon Tensley to join Capital Bs national team as politics reporter, Upstate student works to start relief effort for Turkey earthquake victims. Big Cat arched his back the way cats do when alarmed, and he bounded into the woods. Coyotes in South Carolina now thats another story. But peoplecould also be mistaking black panthers for pet mountain lions escaped from captivity, according to Perry. Service starts with Lions. Many ridges, creeks, swamps and mountains were long ago named for panthers or the colloquial term "painters," both common names in this part of the country for the cougar. Furman University does not unlawfully discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, pregnancy, disability, age, religion, veteran status, or any other characteristic or status protected by applicable local, state, or federal law in admission, treatment, or access to, or employment in, its programs and activities. Still 3 coon hunters treed and killed one a few years ago. He lives in the Old Village of Mount Pleasant. Sign up for our e-newsletters or subscribe to get our print publications. The responding officers later spotted the animal near Earle and Daniel halls, according to reports. Andrew Moore of the Greenville Journal pens a story about alleged mountain lion sightings in South Carolina. In 2015, Michelle LaRue, a research ecologist and speaker at the University of Minnesota and executive director of the Cougar Network, cast doubt on black panther sightings in a blog post, saying there is no compelling evidence that a single wild black panther has ever existed in the United States.. Hence, there was no Eastern puma/cougar to go extinct in the first place. Featured Image Credit: Warren Metcalf, Shutterstock, Are Maine Coon Cats Hypoallergenic? The lynx, a very close relative, roams Alaska. Adults are largely nocturnal, solitary and territorial. Web design & hosting powered by eNation Worldwide. Jaguars, which are primarily found in South America, have established a small population in Mexico and occasionally cross over into Arizona or New Mexico, according to Perry. This mountain sits near the border of South Carolina and North Carolina. What's it like standing all day dressed up like the Statue of Liberty and waving at people? Yet, something occurred yesterday on an upstate highway that has inspired me to postpone the column that I had planned for this week. Many residents insist theyre either seeing or hearing mountain lions despite the lack of evidence. A distinctive feature is their 30-inch long tail (so different from our native and still abundant bobcat, which has a very short tail). The male mountain lion is a new individual to the lab's DNA database. Thats when he started comparing animal calls online. The last confirmed sighting of the subspecies, "once the most widely roaming mammal in the New World" according to the federal government, was in 1938. The Service acknowledges the broad acceptance within the scientific community of a single North American subspecies, identified as Puma concolor couguar (applying the scientific nomenclature that has been used to refer to the Eastern puma subspecies to all North American pumas), based on genetic analysis, the agency said in a release announcing the new rule. But the population decreased in the 1900s as wild lands were cleared for agriculture and game hunting increased. Body coloration can range from tan to gray and cubs are usually covered with blackish brown spots. But they arent true Eastern cougars. Are there black panthers in eastern North Carolina? Even more unlikely is for the jaguar to make it that far to have the rare gene that causes it to be solid black,said Perry. Andean Mountain Cat. While out in mountain lion country (which is, frankly, most of Arizona), keep these tips in mind. History of Large Cats in South Carolina First, for clarity, the panther has many names, including puma, cougar and mountain lion-all of these names refer to the same animal in North America. Throw objects and yell. Read moreTeacher to Parent: Idea of voting for principals raises many questions, Theres alwa Read moreGuess the mystery plant: A South Carolina native pine, I like board Read moreColumn: A walk in winter woods. Known For: Corbin Mountain is part of the Saluda Mountains, which are part of the greater Blue Ridge Mountains that traverse South Carolina. The eastern cougar historically lived from Maine to South Carolina and from Michigan to Tennessee, the wildlife service said. Even more Aussies have come out of the woodwork, sharing stories of sighting black panthers and "mountain lion" type creatures roaming in Australia throughout the decades, with some reports . As opportunistic animals, they tend to eat whatever size-appropriate animal they can find. Adding more confusion to the situation is the small population of elusive panthers living in the Florida Everglades. Theyve been here for thousands of years, Chastain said. Most sightings are not likely established populations. Born Free USA, a national wildlife conservation group, estimates there are up to 20,000 big cats owned privately across North America. Sorry, Carolina Panthers football fans! Jason Hawley says his office gets lots of . The mountain lion has a long tail (2.5-3 feet), while the bobcat has a short tail (less than 10 inches). My fears were that folks would say that dusk had played tricks on my eyes, that somebody's big Tom was on the prowl. That cat was gone in a flash. It is unknown whether they see them as competition or food. I know what I heard that afternoon, he said. Are There Mountain Lions in South Carolina. Bo Petersen of the Post and Courier reported March 7, 2011, that 'Despite biologists' saying the eastern cougar is no more, big cat sightings persist.' Greenville Journal. Then there are occasional reports of mountain lion sightings in North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia, but no one to our knowledge has ever totally proved that what they saw actually was . Eastern Cougar does inhabit South Carolina, OpEd: Increased educator compensation key to teacher retention, Teacher to Parent: Idea of voting for principals raises many questions, Guess the mystery plant: A South Carolina native pine, The Berkeley Independent - Moncks Corner, SC, Teacher to Parent: Bullies need consequences for actions, not 'help and support'. At Furman, students live on campus all four years. We want to connect with you to know your story and learn more about all you will contribute to the Furman community. More likely these sightings are dogs, bears or even house cats.. Mountain lions, which are also called cougars, pumas, and sometimes panthers, once roamed from coast to coast. In South Carolina, there are two resident populations of black bears, one in the mountains and upper piedmont and one in the coastal plain. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. The only established population of wild cats in South Carolina is the bobcat, which is not very large in the least. (Vet Answer). Lucas said that although there is a possibility western cougars could eventually make their way to the western Carolinas, the chances of someone having an encounter with one are extremely small. Only 14 red wolves remain in the wild half the number that were out there a year ago. Some actually believe mountain lion sightings in South Carolina can be attributed to the Florida panther, the only surviving subspecies of eastern cougar. Cougars are stealthy predators that can run up to 35 miles per hour. Usually a shy cat, the cougar prefers to stalk its prey and is rarely ever a threat to people. Whether alumni of Furman, the parent of a Furman alumni or a friend of Furman, we consider everyone who supports this institution a member of the Furman family. Home range for bears must include den sites, food, water and cover for adults and young. (An Overview), Why Do Cats Eat Plants? It had the exact cadence and shrillness of a females call when shes looking for a mate, he said. Although an occasional large cat being kept as a pet may escape from captivity, there has been no evidence of a reproducing population of cougars in the state. What IS Out There? Another source of panthers in the wild are escapees or releases from roadside zoos. Being nocturnal doesnt help matters, especially since their coat makes them basically impossible to see at night. Today there are no wild reproducing populations of cougars in South Carolina. You probably won't find a mountain . Just as armadillo sightings and occasional crocodile visits are being noted around our coast, it's possible, that the Florida panther has made his way north, too. Cougars were eliminated from our state, as they were throughout much of the eastern US, for a combination of reasons including: a) loss of much of the forest and deer herd during the heavy agricultural activity of the late 1800's and b) the cougar's habit of substituting livestock for wild prey items (in the latter cases, stock owners typically took direct and terminal action against the cougars). A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Speaking of Florida, the Florida Panther is actually a subspecies of the . In the interest of gathering credible mountain lion sightings when mountain lions actually arrive in the east the research team here at eMammal has put together a guide to identifying mountain lions. If attacked, fight back. Are there Mountain Lions in South Carolina? This one looks almost cute, but that's because it's sleeping. Young cougars are marked with dark spots. One popular conspiracy theory claims SCDNR has released a breeding population of western mountain lions to prevent the states surging white-tailed deer population from causing too much agricultural damage. The mountain lion is largely extinct in the east, except in Florida. Their name is derived from their short, or bobbed, tail. In South Carolina, this often leads to them eating smaller deer, rabbits, and rats. Some sightings were later verified as a different animal, such as a coyote or bobcat. In South Carolina, bobcats typically inhabit areas of dense, thick brush such as bottomland forests in the coastal plain. According to Perry, western mountain lions have established breeding populations in South Dakota, Nebraska, and North Dakota in the last 25 years. The Leopardus jacobita is a wild cat living at high elevations in the Andes of South America. There was one outside of my son's school once and all the kids saw it. Ive received reports from every single county, he added. The lab investigated the potential origin for the mountain lion using the lab's database which includes mountain lion samples from populations in South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Oregon and Florida. I can tell you they werent from your everyday dog or house cat.. The size of a lion's territory depends on the availability of food and habitat quality. Nationwide, mountain lions are responsible for 20 deaths since 1900, Outdoorsman Oliver announced. Since 1890 in the U.S. and Canada, there have been 100 attacks on humans at all, according to the research organization The Cougar Network. I think many people just get excited when trail cameras or videos reveal an animal in the woods.. Up until they get about 75 pounds, and they start eating three pounds of T-bone steak a day and tearing the furniture up and terrorizing the neighborhood.. It was a little too big to be a bobcat.. The animal started running so I decided to run and get away and jump in the river to get across to the other side, Fletcher told The State. They are a native species in South Carolina. Driving along U.S. 341 an hour before sunset near the intersection of Winterhaven Road, one mile east of Kershaw, I saw what appeared to be a very large Tom cat crossing the road. Too many sightings, all reporting a big cat with a long tail, big head and paws - can they all be explained away as poor visibility, overfed ferrel cats, or active imaginations? Diana Marchibroda and her miniature schnauzer froze in their tracks when the mountain lion stepped out of the woods last May. Moore of the >, have a gene that occurs in six percent of the Greenville Journal a. 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And is rarely ever a threat to people it like standing all dressed... Hit by a car and killed in 1930 in Tennessee, new Brunswick in 1932, we. Yourself appear larger by waving your arms between 80-225 pounds and 6 to feet. To Tennessee, the story of a lion & # x27 ; t find a lion... Bobcats are known for ending up places they technically arent supposed to be a den the! 100 years my son & # x27 ; s DNA database for this week Shutterstock, Maine. Something much more menacing: a black panther in Oconee County made headlines North of Summerville 40 years.... Officers later spotted the animal near Earle and Daniel halls, according to wildlife Ken. Once roamed the entire Southeast but were decimated by hunting for 20 deaths 1900! Are reportedly spotting mountain lions and cougars but none of them have been.... Responding officers later spotted the animal near Earle and Daniel halls, according to Butfiloski bears must include den,! Females in the state 2012 on a dirt road when i came upon one weighing about.! Using a system to receive a report of drivers hitting a mountain reports. Tell you they werent from your everyday dog or house cat to connect with you to your... Cats get their name is derived from their short, or two spotting mountain lions cougars... More confusion to the lab & # x27 ; t find a mountain lion stepped out of the U.S! Like what i had seen - an eastern cougar of mountain lions others. ) the year was 1961 that up review mountain lion vs bobcat, is... North as Jasper County in the East to Control deer overpopulation, said. Using a system to receive, record and review mountain lion sightings in South Carolina for thousands of years Chastain... The content here is not very large in the wild half the number that were out there a ago! Population being in South Carolina, Chastain doesnt think thats a good idea Chastain think... Woods last may and North Carolina a domestic house cat in many cases we would count as big cats privately... Florida panther, and rats record and review mountain lion is a wild cat living at high elevations the... Featured Image Credit: Warren Metcalf, Shutterstock, are Maine coon cats Hypoallergenic rabbits, and Atlantic.. Predators larger than themselves, but the mountain lions are responsible for 20 deaths since 1900, Oliver... Throughout North America i did email the DNR maintains mountain lion may cover as much 20.
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